I'm reading The Fountainhead now for a reading group, and I'm surprised by how much I like it. One thing in the book that I find pretty preposterous though is how Howard Roark's aesthetic tastes and goals appeared sui generis at age 10 (and Rand wants us to think that this is an admirable thing, and a necessary prerequisite to an authentic life). I was trying to put my finger on what it was about this that seemed wrong and absurd to me, and yes I think it is what you've identified. Taste is like the price signal. Trying to be "fully authentic" involves becoming a sort of central planner.
this is an extremely excellent post with exceptional levels of self-awareness. i appreciate the self-awareness + candor in this post so, so much. thank you for writing it :)
it's pretty informative about people who would never confront / admit these parts of their decision-making machinery. it's also interesting in terms of people who for various reasons actually don't need them, which is rly interesting re kegan etc..
thank you - i worked a really long time at formulating these thoughts!
Why do you bring up Kegan? what about his work is interesting or relevant? reading an overview of him, i only wish they were more rigorous in the past with defining their concepts with more examples...
i know very little about his work besides the stage 3 / stage 4 / stage 5 excerpt i pasted. i cite it mainly to mention "people have been thinking about this stuff for a long time; we are not the first to think about it"
or like, i suppose...kegan suggests stage 4 succeeds stage 3, but i'm interested in the experience of speedrunning stage 3 -> stage 4, / people were already at stage 4 from childhood / adolescent / teenage years.
when i was 17yo i did an activity where my cohort was encouraged to define our 'north stars', the guiding principles that would orient/guide us through our college years. i knew i couldn't really articulate one then, unless it were hopelessly abstract / meta / zoomed out.
'supporting human flourishing' feels hopelessly abstract / meta / zoomed out.
but i know people who now, 4yrs on, are still plugging on fairly specific / concrete north stars from back then, like "increase access to education for young women in <district>" or "increase hydroponics uptake"
Stage 3: The person's sense of self is socially determined, based on the real or imagined expectations of others (post-adolescence).
Stage 4: The person's sense of self is determined by a set of values that they have authored for themselves (rarely achieved, only in adulthood).
Stage 5: The person's sense of self is no longer bound to any particular aspect of themselves or their history, and they are free to allow themselves to focus on the flow of their lives.
Bery nice poast.
I'm reading The Fountainhead now for a reading group, and I'm surprised by how much I like it. One thing in the book that I find pretty preposterous though is how Howard Roark's aesthetic tastes and goals appeared sui generis at age 10 (and Rand wants us to think that this is an admirable thing, and a necessary prerequisite to an authentic life). I was trying to put my finger on what it was about this that seemed wrong and absurd to me, and yes I think it is what you've identified. Taste is like the price signal. Trying to be "fully authentic" involves becoming a sort of central planner.
hi hi hi it is 'mimetic', not memetic...'memetic' considered memetic
now reading!
oh my god. the title itself. i am sorry i make the distinction later!
fixed!
Wow, great piece!
I'd love to hear more about the segment:
“how to be a good person”, which is about winning in group-level selection
Because it's not obvious to me that that's what it means to be a good person
shall we discuss offline and potentially write up what we agree on?
Sounds good! but we don't have to agree))
this is an extremely excellent post with exceptional levels of self-awareness. i appreciate the self-awareness + candor in this post so, so much. thank you for writing it :)
it's pretty informative about people who would never confront / admit these parts of their decision-making machinery. it's also interesting in terms of people who for various reasons actually don't need them, which is rly interesting re kegan etc..
thank you - i worked a really long time at formulating these thoughts!
Why do you bring up Kegan? what about his work is interesting or relevant? reading an overview of him, i only wish they were more rigorous in the past with defining their concepts with more examples...
i know very little about his work besides the stage 3 / stage 4 / stage 5 excerpt i pasted. i cite it mainly to mention "people have been thinking about this stuff for a long time; we are not the first to think about it"
or like, i suppose...kegan suggests stage 4 succeeds stage 3, but i'm interested in the experience of speedrunning stage 3 -> stage 4, / people were already at stage 4 from childhood / adolescent / teenage years.
what factors can help contribute to reaching stage 4 quickly, healthily, & optimally?
not just falling into a suboptimal basin
when i was 17yo i did an activity where my cohort was encouraged to define our 'north stars', the guiding principles that would orient/guide us through our college years. i knew i couldn't really articulate one then, unless it were hopelessly abstract / meta / zoomed out.
'supporting human flourishing' feels hopelessly abstract / meta / zoomed out.
but i know people who now, 4yrs on, are still plugging on fairly specific / concrete north stars from back then, like "increase access to education for young women in <district>" or "increase hydroponics uptake"
> Much like prices are an information processing system, so is social status.
what a line
re mimesis:
[kegan's 5 stages of development](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_developmental_framework)
Stage 3: The person's sense of self is socially determined, based on the real or imagined expectations of others (post-adolescence).
Stage 4: The person's sense of self is determined by a set of values that they have authored for themselves (rarely achieved, only in adulthood).
Stage 5: The person's sense of self is no longer bound to any particular aspect of themselves or their history, and they are free to allow themselves to focus on the flow of their lives.
yep, and also Girard's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimetic_theory except the christian exceptionalism in it :D